Calculate Integer Properties Based on Narrative Position

Feature Requests
#1

Integer properties can already calculate parent values from children, it’d be great if there were an option to do something similar based on where the item is located within the narrative.

For example: I have a set of scenes I place within a folder and each scene has an estimated word count property. If I check off the proposed option, the folder should have a calculated estimated word count based on the scene items within.

The reason I suggest this is because I’m already providing a sort of parent/child relationship within the narrative view. Why should I have to manually do it a second time?

This could also be solved by having an option to tell the program to automatically create/update the parent/child nesting when altering the narrative order. Then the current calculation option would work seamlessly. I can see some people not liking that automation though, so it’d probably need to be optional.

Thanks for your consideration!

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#2

I can certainly see how useful this feature could be.

I had this automated when I was writing my novel in Obsidian (via a plugin) before ultimately choosing to write with Scrivener/Aeon Timeline.

In my case, I sync Aeon Timeline’s narrative to Scrivener. In Scrivener, I can optionally select all my novels, a novel, a chapter, a scene, or a passage – or any combination thereof – whenever I need a word count.

I’m not sure this is helpful, but I thought I’d share my own solution.

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#3

In Scrivener you can click on statistics and then options. On the Draft target (which you can set) is option to only count documents set to be included in Compile.
Hovering over the quick search bar will give you current word count of the compile group (which can be your Novel as you are writing) so with a quick mouse hover you have the current word count of your work in progress.

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#4

Hi @ThunderKnight,

This was a feature request from me way back in the early days of the Alpha of version 3.0. It was shown as a feature request on the Aeon Timeline website when there was a tracked list of these requests. But there seemed little interest from other users, with few votes on the feature request tracker. Mostly because people just tracked their word counts in their writing software.

I still think this is a necessary feature though. I am using AT3 to outline a book. And the argument that this should be done in writing software but not in the outlining software seems weak to me. I could just as easily outline in my writing software and ditch AT3. But I don’t because it helps me visualise my planned novel. And word counts are part of that plan.

Perhaps it will get implemented at some point in the future.

All the best,

Andrew

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#5

No disagreement there. I believe that if an author finds a feature helpful, the request stands on its own, and we should not be eager to second-guess something that a fellow author would find helpful (we are not the developers, after all). I hope I wasn’t inadvertently doing so.

That said, I confess that I do wonder how important it is for AT to automate word count calculations in the manner suggested in the feature request, when the values themselves are untethered from the text of the narrative and must be monitored and manually updated. At least with AT synced to Scrivener, word counts in Scrivener do automatically recalculate upon rearrangement of the story narrative. So I guess what I’m wondering is if all that is needed is to denote a target word count, then why wouldn’t an item type “wordcount” in AT suffice?

#6

Hi Steve,

I certainly wasn’t referring to anyone in this current discussion when I talked about dismissing the importance of including an automated word count. My point was more general .And your question is certainly valid. Why should AT3 automate summing the individual scene word counts (I use a property called word count, set as an integer)?

I would argue it should, because a commercially viable novel should, dependent on genre, conform to a maximum word count, split over a number of scenes of varying length. Some scenes will be shorter, some longer, but on average a scene is usually around 2000 words. At least, in my experience. So part of the outlining and planning process is to assess how many scenes are needed, and of what length. The length of a scene will depend on a whole range of factors. All of which I am using AT3 to map out. So when I am considering the overall fabric of the novel, an idea of planned word count is vital.

On top of the above points, it is important to remember that not all authors use Scrivener. Or Ulysses, in my case. Both keep track of word counts by individual sheets or documents. But some writers use Word and would no doubt benefit from having a road map of expected scene length to guide them.

In short, I just think that word count is equally important as any other element associated with outlining a narrative work of significant length. Firstly, as planned, and secondly in actuality, as part of editing a draft.

Andrew

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#7

Hey @ThunderKnight thanks for the suggestion.

I’ve chatted with the dev team about this one, and it’s something they’re considering adding to a future release, but they want to make sure that it’s implemented in the right way.

I can’t give you any timeframe on when this might happen, but just wanted to let you know that it’s on the list.

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#8

Interesting about the word count and you are correct in that Scrivener (and will assume for Ulysses), Word, and google docs all have a word count.
I would for Aeon really only want counts on a chapter and Act level. (Ideally input a scene count which is then added together to total for its parent (Chapter) and Act would be a sum of the Chapter counts. I am guessing to only way for this to easily work would be to input a Scene level word count and let the software do the counts for a chapter or Act level.
Played with adding item word count and using statistic bar icon and making up numbers to see how might look in Narrative view. Not most elegant solution, but, any writing software listed above would give you numbers to input.

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#9

The suggestion is to have the user manually enter target word count values for outlining. I appreciate @ahansonauthor for articulating how he would find it helpful.

In my dream version of Aeon Timeline, there would be an integrated writing function that includes automated word counts and user-entered target word counts (the feature request of this thread), calculated at each section level. The writer would then be able to add target word counts, write the narrative, and track words written.

For nearly three years, I have been advocating for AT developers to add a writing function that integrates with AT’s narrative sections. It wouldn’t have to be nearly as robust as, say, Scrivener, but it would need to let us drag sections around (such as chapters, scenes, passages) while simultaneously repositioning them in the other narrative views (and vice versa). With such a feature, automated word counts – both target and actual – would make sense, as AT would total words at each narrative level (i.e., in my setup, Novel, Chapter, Scene, and Passage):

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Chances are, a fairly basic writing editor built into AT would be enough for a novelist like me, while those who want a more complete feature set can still sync with Scrivener or Ulysses.

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#10

Hi @Goaliedad,

Thanks for the reply and thanks for the detailed screenshots. This is exactly the kind of implementation I was thinking of when discussing the automated summing of individual word counts. As both you and @SCN mention, the manual inputting of a word count per scene would sum to the next parent level up. For me, that could go all the way up the chain of narrative from scene to chapter to act to book, and even series if the author wanted to outline a whole series of books, as I know @SCN has done on his timeline file.

The actual word counts would come from Scrivener or Ulysses, as you say. Or, even from AT3 itself, if Steve’s wishes were implemented, and Aeon became writing software itself.

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#11

Hi Steve,

The simplicity of your idea for an integrated writing workflow inside AT is growing on me. Even if I remain unsure I would use it. Given the inbuilt narrative function, all of the mechanics to generate and manipulate a long form text are there already. Although I still have reservations about the output workflows (format, formatting, export etc) and the potential for the devs to get bombarded with ways to enhance the feature set in the future.

Would be interesting to hear what the devs think about this potential direction, for sure.

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#12

Just imagine the market that this would open up for the app, especially for fiction writers, but certainly not limited to them.

Would be interesting to hear what the devs think about this potential direction, for sure.

It would! :slight_smile:

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#13

Thanks @AeonRob ! I’m very glad to hear it’s on the list.

I’m also happy to see there are others that would like this and the discussion it’s generated.

And while I used est. word count as an example, I think there are other use cases. For example, I’ve heard of people marking the tension they expect to build in their scenes on a numerical scale, such as 1-10. I don’t do this, but for those that do, I imagine having the ability to auto-calculate a chapter or act’s average tension level might be useful in determining whether you’re hitting the overall level you want or if you might at some point need to reassess your scenes.

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