Prologue

[DuchGB (Grzegorz Brudnik)]

Hi.

I know similar requests have been made before, but since the problem still exists, I’ll take the liberty of reminding you.

It would be great if the prologue in the Narrative section could be labeled as 0. So for book number 6, instead of ‘Prologue 6.1’, it would be ‘Prologue 6.0’, so that the next, first actual chapter could be labeled as ‘Chapter 6.1’.

I can switch to ‘Book style’, but then the chapters from all books get added up, which makes no sense at all. Besides, I simply prefer ‘Outline style’ because it’s better and clearer. The prologue should be labeled as 0.

Regards

[SCN (Steve)]

This is an interesting suggestion. In a novel, a prologue is technically part of a novel’s narrative, yet doesn’t get a chapter number. I hadn’t thought to include a prologue in AT, but I can certainly see the problem if you want to do that. For that matter, there is front and back matter, which also wouldn’t get a chapter number.

Since the AT Narrative settings for sections are hierarchical, having the chapter start at 0 could solve the challenge of including the prologue, but would introduce a problem for writers who don’t: Their first chapter would now be Chapter 0.

As an alternative approach, I wonder if a Narrative Section assignment could be added to the existing options of Folders and Other Types, titled something like “Exclude from numbering”? This would give the user the ability to place an excluded item anywhere in the narrative without it being included in the chapter, scene, etc. numbering. Thus, we could use excluded-from-numbering items for prologues, front matter, back matter, or even some ad hoc item that sits between, say, chapters but doesn’t get a number.

Just thinking out loud…

[SCN (Steve)]

In reading another thread on this, I now recall that the problem is with using the Outline Style rather than the Book/Continuous style. The Book/Continuous style allows for a prologue; however, this style is incompatible with a multi-novel series contained within one AT project. Thus, those of us who are writing a multi-novel series use the Outline Style. But with the Outline Style, we get the chapter-count problem raised in this thread if we wish to include a prologue in the narrative.

As does @DuchGB, I prefer the Outline style anyway. I do, though, see why Grzegorz would welcome the ability to make the prologue chapter “0” or, per my suggestion, to exclude it from the chapter count.

As long as we’re discussing this, I’ll add my two cents on the Book/Continuous style: It makes me spill my coffee because it increments the number of each scene from the first scene of the novel, rather than from the first scene of the chapter. Thus, we get the unhelpful “Chapter 4, Scene 45;” as there are only three scenes in that chapter, it should be, to my mind, “Chapter 4, Scene 3.”

[DuchGB (Grzegorz Brudnik)]

Nooo, not at all. Look here. I got 1.10.1, and 1.10.2 (Book 1, Chapter 10, Scene 1, Scene 2)

[SCN (Steve)]

That’s interesting. What version are you running? I’m running 3.5.19, a beta build.

[Goaliedad]

It is in settings under narrative see the image can change numbering system. I never knew.

[SCN (Steve)]

@Goaliedad, since you’re not running the beta, could you provide a screenshot showing, say, Chapter 5 and its scenes? How are the scenes numbered? Do they count from 1 for that chapter, or do they count from 1 from Chapter 1? I’m curious whether what I’m seeing in my beta version is a bug. (I’ve reported a possible bug to the developers over in the beta discussions.)

[Goaliedad]

See what you mean with numbering for different acts see below.

[SCN (Steve)]

Thanks. Would you mind sharing a screenshot of your Narrative Sections settings? Here’s how mine is set up, btw:

[stuart]

I’m using 3.5 and if i create a new project based on the Fiction>Novel template (and then change to outline style) i see this - which looks right to me though i don’t really use the narrative feature much.

[SCN (Steve)]

That looks right to me, too. Does your Narrative List tab look right? That’s the one I’m using in the beta. (Maybe it’s an issue only with the Narrative List tab.)

[stuart]

Yes - it looks fine too:

Is it different for you if you open up a new project with this template?

[SCN (Steve)]

Good question. I’ll try that in the morning and we’ll see.

[Goaliedad]

Here is my narrative settings.

[SCN (Steve)]

@stuart

Is it different for you if you open up a new project with this template?

Stuart, I’ve tried your idea of opening up a new project with the Novel template. I continue to get scene numbering that increments from Chapter 1 even if I’m looking at a later chapter:

It’s interesting that you get correct scene incrementing but I don’t. Are you in the Mac version, by any chance? I’m in the Windows version:

Version: 3.5.19
Shell Version: 3.5.18
Opening Mode: Editor
Operating System: Windows 11

[stuart]

Yes - I am on a Mac so perhaps that is the difference?!

[ahansonauthor (Andrew Hanson)]

Hi Steve,

From what I can see, you’re using the Book/ Continuous narrative option, whilst Stuart is using the Outline option. The Book/ Continuous option is labelled as having ‘Numbering continuous across parents’. Which is what you have in your screenshots. Whereas the Outline option indexes based on relative narrative position. In other words, what you are seeing is by design.

Or am I missing something? Apologies if I’ve misunderstood the issue being discussed here.

Personally, I think the Book option should be continuous. But if others prefer a chapter to have scene numbers that start afresh for each narrative folder, then perhaps it could be added as an option.

If my memory serves me right, this issue was discussed back in the early alpha stages for version 3.0 and the outline option was added to reflect the different way of numbering. Or the other way around.

Regards

Andrew

[SCN (Steve)]

@ahansonauthor

From what I can see, you’re using the Book/ Continuous narrative option, whilst Stuart is using the Outline option. The Book/ Continuous option is labelled as having ‘Numbering continuous across parents’. Which is what you have in your screenshots. Whereas the Outline option indexes based on relative narrative position.

Oh, wow, you’re right, Andrew. Thanks for catching that.

In other words, what you are seeing is by design.

Yes, I’ve come to agree. The “Book/Continous Style” name is a clue. Removing any doubt is the text for this style, “Items for each section are numbered independently. Numbering is continuous across parents.” [Emphasis added.]

I need to pay better attention to details.

Personally, I think the Book option should be continuous. But if others prefer a chapter to have scene numbers that start afresh for each narrative folder, then perhaps it could be added as an option.

Sure, perhaps giving us both options, plus the ability to accommodate a series, is the right way to make everyone happy. (In my case, though, I prefer the Outline style.)

[stuart]

Your screenshot above with your narrative settings did have the outline option set. Glad you got it sorted in any case!

[SCN (Steve)]

Stuart, I’m not sure who you’re responding to. But if you’re referring to my above posting, I had the “Book/Continuous Style” option set. I had assumed your follow-on screenshots similarly had the same option set; I had missed that you were using the Outline setting, which @ahansonauthor kindly pointed out.

It’s getting hard to keep track of this stuff, isn’t it? But I think we finally got where we needed to go. Thanks for your help.